thetruth
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 3
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Reply with quote | #1 |
After hitting the three year point of being unemployed in this field, I feel absolutely compelled to sound off concerning a few things about this “profession”.
I have FIVE years of operational forecasting experience. I am not a recent grad. I probably will not find work in it again. There is little or no growth or opportunity in this endeavor. What good is having a research community if there are no operations people to put it into practice? As is well known, the best forecast positions are with the NWS. Good luck getting into the NWS, they are severely under budget, and are concerned with not shrinking any more. The NWS union is only interested in what they can get now for their membership, and have absolutely no foresight to the future, typical of most unions, thus their decline in numbers. Good luck getting in without being a disabled veteran. Maybe you can get in if you attend church with a MIC. I know someone who got in for that very reason. This person does not hold a BS in meteorology, either.
The so-called "private sector" is just as much a joke. They have quite a reputation for paying almost insulting wages, and having a bad attitude in general. One interview I had, the guy asked me the highest point in the eastern U.S. I was a forecaster 100’s of miles away from it, naturally i didn't know it. What was his point? The interview took 3 days. He interrupted it in the middle and called me back a week later to finish. What professionalism!
I've noticed that on the AMS page career section it states about pay rates becoming more respectable. I guess that means going from tips to fast food scale wages. I'm not suggesting 30-40k like other college grads are paid, but maybe 10 bucks a hour? Why is there no value to what we do? If its about cheap labor, then move to India (I'll bet that's already in the works for some weather "companies").
Why isn’t the private sector concerned about the talent pool? Eventually students will wise up and get out of this dead end field, and then universities will drop their programs. This has already occurred in some other nations as a matter of fact.
Not surprisingly, most of my attempts at employment have gone unheeded. The last position I applied to with a private company, was for one opening. They had 110 applicants. I couldn’t even rate an interview. I think they were overwhelmed and had to get extremely specific as to their need to whittle the field down. I was shocked just how many people are out of work in this profession.
Another disturbing trend of late, employers seeking only DOD experienced candidates. Why are civilian university trained meteorologists being excluded out? Are we morons? (Are we all considered boozy partiers? I worked damn hard through school. Others in my class did too. This field is way too difficult to slide through.) Many of these are government contracts at military bases at taxpayer expense (in other words, our expense)
[Moderator's note: on 2006-05-04 the CWSA web site was not online. A Google search turned up a cached page which said only: "CWSA v2.0 coming soon. © 2006 all rights reserved." Apparently the CWSA site is being reworked.]
You can't find it now, but there used to be a website for the Commercial Weather Services Association. On it, you wouldn’t believe the comments from some private weather companies, and their absolute disdain for young forecasters coming out of university supposedly being “unprepared”. Almost racist in concept for painting with a broad brush, figuring that all we can do is read model output, not knowing how to read soundings, adjust 850 temps, etc. Unbelievable. Maybe that's true for some, but not ALL. They cant even afford a modicum of on the job training? If you are that under capitalized, just fold up.
I ask you, is there any other profession on this planet that allows itself to be undercut by interlopers from other disciplines, specifically computer science majors, and ugh, communications majors? A lot of advertised positions seem more suitable for IT professionals, so why list them on a met site? I consider it an absolute disgrace that professional organizations such as the AMS and NWA have sat back and allowed people with barely an 8th grade science education to complete a correspondence course, pass themselves off as meteorologists, and pull in big salaries in some cases. I laugh every spring and fall when their MOS temp forecasts are 10 degrees off. And the AMS REWARDS them yet with these “seals” You should be throwing them out! not rewarding them.
NO degree=no meteorologist title. Do other earth science endeavors permit this? Can you be a geologist by completing a correspondence course? A geographer? NO! They protect the integrity of the profession.
DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS!
If I seem too negative, walk a day in my shoes. I am THOUSANDS of dollars in debt with what is greatly appearing to be an utterly useless degree in a dying, if not already dead field. If the department of education thinks they are going to collect on it, they can think again. I will change my identity, or just leave the U.S. if they get hostile about paying back those loans. My university did nothing to inform me of the general lack of opportunity in this field, and even discouraged us from getting grad degrees, saying there are already too many of them. I feel totally ripped off. Maybe some consumer protection law should apply here.
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| | hpbear
Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 11
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Reply with quote | #2 |
It's not quite that bad, yet, to call the profession a joke. But I know the feeling. And I know the numbers are daunting for anyone applying these days. Because of a decision by a bureaucrat in Canadian immigration, I may unfortunately be joining you soon.
But there is hope, if we can get a hold of the situation and do more than talk about it. If you've seen my other posts on here and even checked out my weather census proposal, the first thing that needs to be done is to see on paper what has been seen on the ground.
Am I proposing that we be radical about it? no. Actually, a lot of employers, some AMS committee members, and others in the field like my Census idea but say it may cost a lot to do. But if in a controlled manner, the situation can be spelled out for everyone, I am sure that some type of action would have to be taken (and their resourses could be seen as well-spent in the long term). What that would be? We have to see the numbers on paper first.
Just don't panic too much and screw yourself out of any hope for a position. It's too easy to do over the net these days. Work to make things better for all. There is support out there for it in the grass roots. It just has to be harnessed. |
| | jmineer
Registered: 07/04/06
Posts: 1
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Reply with quote | #3 |
Any job position where science is directly involved is going to evolve faster than anything else. Everyone, including the ones with the most experience, stands at whatever distance from the line of expendability. The line just keeps moving closer and the only way to keep your distance is to evolve too. Those who are stubborn with pride are the ones who bravely try and hold the fort and inevitably lose their ass. This is a foolish way to live. If you're a Christian it makes sense in that way. But my way would be to simply do whatever pays the bills. Real meaning comes from the time you spend with your family, even if you gotta goto work and lick toes all day. That's life. You can't change the fact that there are "them" out there that make things hard on everyone else. They don't do it for "that" reason. The difficulties are only side effects of an unseen cause. Usually corruption or greed. But again that's out of our hands. Always look ahead and no what's going on if at all possible and work your ass of while your working. Except don't measure your worth EVER or you'll fall flat on your face at some point. Bottom line in what i've said? INSIGHT. |
| | hpbear
Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 11
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Reply with quote | #4 |
Well,
my position in this matter is that evolution is good, especially in the science field. And in meteorology that is the case as much as any science.
What I think the original post's frustration is pointed towards is not the change within the field itself. But more of a matter of not knowing what the change is, or even what the current supply and demand of the field is.
The supply and demand is not only in the amount of labor, but what is expected in that labor. And what is frustrating to the original writer is that a lot of colleges or colleagues do not know where that supply-demand balance is, much less be able to adapt to the changes of the balance. I see it as trying to make a forecast without looking at any actual analyses. It can be done, but nowhere near as well as if you at least have the starting point, or expendability point that you refer to.
And what the field has not done well is tell those coming into the field or those in the field already where that starting point is. Evolution comes about when you know the surroundings you are adapting to, and either adapt or die. But not knowing the surroundings hinders a being's evolution.
So work on getting the analysis done. That way; the original writer, myself, the other responder, or others reading this conversation; have full knowledge of the environment they are getting to and can adapt appropriately. |
| | thetruth
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 3
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Reply with quote | #5 |
An update from my original post.
It has been over a year now since my original posting. Its now time for an update.
After my original post, i decided to renew efforts for finding a position in this "field"
The amount of interviews I had in the course of a year, in regards to applying for what limited positions are actually out there-
ONE.
ONE interview. With an airline. naturally I didnt get it seeing the amount of layoffs present in that industry. Keeping in mind the current occupant of the White House's idea of job creation is to join the military.
My latest, and final attempt in getting an NWS position?
I think I actually had a shot at this seeing the opening was in my hometown, where I have some experience in forecasting for.
The result-
The personnel office in Norfolk "lost" my faxed transcript
Im not kidding about this.
I found this out after the closing date, after a few visits to my local representative, who diligently found this fact out for me.
Upon completing my first week at my new job stocking shelves at Wal mart, i promptly took my diploma off the wall and tossed it into the garbage.
What a total waste of time and money. and like I said, i will leave the U.S. before I repay one nickel of these loans.
IF YOU ARE A UNIVERSITY UNDERGRAD. GET OUT NOW BEFORE ITS TOO LATE, AND BEFORE YOU DESTROY YOUR LIFE.
This field is done for
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| | thetruth
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 3
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Reply with quote | #6 |
Well, to continue on with this little blog I started a few years ago. here it is a few years alter and things have not improved a bit. As a matter of fact ive given up on this endeavor all together, but i still keep tab on it. Its become more and more apparent to me that doomsday for anyone actually involved in operational meteorology and weather support for private industry such as media is on the doorstep.
Notice something peculiar about this recent job posting?
"The successful candidate will have: 1-3 years experience coding and maintaining software related to data decoding, database, and complex datacenter management; Experience with the following programming languages C/C++, C#, SQL, Unix/Linux System Administration, IIS, Perl and others; familiarity with Weather Data Formats & software a plus (GRIB/GRIB2, NETCDF, WDSS-II software); understanding of scalable systems; understanding of IP networks and Socket programming; background in Meteorology preferred but not required."
BACKGROUND IN METEOROLOGY NOT REQUIRED.
This company is a major provider for forecasting products and fancy graphics for many many media outlets. They are setting their aim on other private concerns as well. Its all computer science, and we, the atmospheric science community have been pretty much eliminated from the loop. I think a major weather provider on cable tv uses them as well and allowed them to pretty much purge their staff of over 80 people, some with advanced degrees and years of knowledge.
You can blame a poor economy, but technology is the real culprit here, and I guess thats what you call "progress". You knew it would happen sooner or later. Data from sensors goes into the models then into the slick graphics which are sold to ignoramuses and we get the short end of the stick. So much for the man-machine mix. i hope these companies involved in this type of endeavor make LOTS of money. Then they can be TAXED to pay for our assistance checks. If they want to eliminate us, then they can pay for us as well. Id prefer a check in the mail than having to deal with that work-a-day stress anyway.
Funny thing is all this advanced technology still doesnt get it right. I watched the weather twinkie on my local outlet in a near panic a few weeks ago as the slick computer graphics were displaying fancy spinning rotationals all over the place with her blurting out "to take cover" for there are "tornadoes all over the place." The NWS later had ZERO confirmations. Watch your local outlet with their slick graphics and idiot on screen interpreters and see how they perform.
Now before you tell me to "evolve or die" and go spend the the equivalent of a small nation's GDP getting trained on SQS, perl, C++, etc. and all this other ridiculous garbage, know this.
I live near a major university deeply involved in computer science. there are plenty of stories in my paper about CS graduates from their program not finding work due to immigrants with H1B visas, or downright outsourcing of functions to India where they will do programming for pennies. Besides, being cooped up with a bunch of olfactory assaulting hygenically challenged code dorks has zero appeal to me as well.
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